Official Kisska Topic

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 10, 2018 17:48:13 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Aug 10, 2018 17:48:13 GMT -5

Welcome to the Official Kisska topic. The first post will host all grammar and some info concerning the language as the second post will contain the entire dictionary. Any posts afterwards are typically just about the language.

What is Kisska?

Kisska is a conlang made on July 20th 2018 as an attempt to regulate and make the word deviation system of Lezhi clear and consistent and prevent the loss of semantics. It also removed some of the quirkiness of Lezhi and takes on an even more European design.

However, Kisska right before its Beta release decided to downplay the pseudo-objective systemization of base words and what words they can deviate and become more of an artlang than before. So, Kisska is now an unnaturalistic a priori oligomorphemic artistic language with some schematic qualities and principles. In other words, it's incredibly regular in terms of grammar rules/language patterns and features a simplistic deviation system. A considerable chunk of the pronunciation and visuals of the words have a hidden Pan-Germanic inspiration. If you want to learn the language, please go through the Grammar, Idiomatic Section, and then the Dictionary.

Kisska Reference Grammar

1 - Pronunciation

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1.1 - Phonology
(IPA symbols will be in // as ~ is used for allophones, layman pronunciation based off of General American will be put in (). Pronunciation is 100% consistent. If I say a letter or letter combination is pronounced a certain way, it will always be pronounced that way. It is highly recommended that you know IPA because the English language can not accurately explain how some of the sounds are supposed to be pronounced. Request an audio recording of me speaking Kisska if you are curious.)

a /ɑ~ä~ə/ (normally pronounced as the a in father.)
b /b/ (pronounced as b)
c /ʃ/ (pronounced as the sh in shore.)
cy /ʃ/ (pronounced as the sh in shore.)
d /d/ (pronounced as the d in dog. Not the d in model. If the d in dog/model sound the same then don't worry about it, you may pronounce d the same way in that case.)
dc /d͡ʒ/ (pronounced as j)
dy /d͡ʒ/ (pronounced as j)
e /e~ɛ/ (pronounced roughly as the a in lake or exactly as the e in bed.)
f /f/ (pronounced as f)
g /g/ (pronounced as g in begin and never the g in giant. In other words, g is never pronounced as the j sound.)
h /h~x/ (pronounced as h)
i /i/ (pronounced as the ea in beam)
k /k/ (pronounced as k)
l /l/ (pronounced as l)
m /m/ (pronounced as m)
n /n/ (pronounced as n)
o /o~ɔ/ (pronounced as the o in home or the ough in bought.)
p /p/ (pronounced as p)
r /ɾ~r/ (While English does have the flapped r, you will probably not notice or be able to properly isolate it. The best advice I can give you is to pronounce the r in Spanish where the flap effect is more prominent. Alternatively, you can trill or roll your r which also just Spanish rr.)
s /s/ (pronounced as s in sad. Never as the s in is, sure, or treasure.)
t /t/ (pronounced as the t in tap. Never as the t in petal or faction.)
tc /t͡ʃ/ (pronounced as ch)
ty /t͡ʃ/ (pronounced as ch)
u /u/ (pronounced as the oo in moon.)
v /v/ (pronounced as the v in video.)
w /w/ (pronounced as a w.)
y /j/ (pronounced as the consonant y, not the vowel y.)
z /z/ (pronounced as z.)
zc /ʒ/ (pronounced as the ge in mirage pr the s in closure. Focus on the sound and not the letters.)

1.2 - Diphthongs
Ai /ɑi~äi/ (pronounced as igh in thigh.)
Au /ɑu~äu/ (pronounced as ow in power.)

Ia /ja/ (pronounced as yah.)
Ie /je~jɛ/ (pronounced as yay or yeh.)
Io /jo~jɔ/ (pronounced like yo.)
Iu /ju/ (pronounced as the word you.)

Oi /oi~ɔi/ (pronounced as oy.)

Ua /wɑ~wä/ (pronounced as wah.)
Ue /we~wɛ/ (pronounced as way or weh.)
Ui /wi/ (pronounced as wee.)
Uo /wo~wɔ/ (pronounced as whoa.)

1.3 - Allophones
A on an unstressed syllable can be pronounced as schwa //
B before K/P/T is pronounced as p /p/
C before s is pronounced together as s
C before y is pronounced together as c
D before y is pronounced together as the English j sound
G before K/P/T is pronounced as k /k/
K before B/D/G is pronounced as g /g/
N before k is pronounced together as nk (ng sound+k)
N before g is pronounced together as ng (ng sound)
P before B/D/G is pronounced as b /b/
S before c is pronounced together as c
T before B/D/G is pronounced as d /d/
T before c is pronounced together as the ch sound
T before y is pronounced together as the ch sound

1.5 - Phonotactics {unfinished}
Native words follow a (C)(C)V(V)(C) pattern.

1.6 - Prosody
Kisska is a syllable-timed language. Stressed syllables tend to be pronounced slightly longer and have a minor pitch increase. It is very similar to Spanish.

Stress is typically second-to-last syllable for all words. If the vowel of the suffix -ya, -a or base words which inherently have more than one syllable appear in a typically stressed position, then the stress is pushed back by one syllable or until there is a stressable position.

Stress that goes against typical stress rules (in the case of borrowing foreign words typically) can be marked with an acute accent (´) on the vowel.

In a sentence, content words (nouns/adjective/verbs/adverbs) will take stress priority over function words (prepositions/conjunctions). Adding
extra stress on a particular word in a sentence can be used to emphasize it.

-Questions should typically have raising intonation.

2 - Sentence Formation/Syntax

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2.1 - Word Order
In Kisska, the word order for sentences is SVO. In other words, the subject (typically the doer of the action that is the verb) is place first, then the verb, and then finally the object (typically the receiver of the action).

2.2 - Part of Speech Positioning
Adjectives are typically placed before nouns. They can rarely be placed after nouns for poetic effect.

Adverbs are typically placed right before verbs. You can also place them anywhere else but usually not before nouns. However, you can place them before nouns if there is an audible pause which can be represented via a comma in writing.

2.3 - Predicative Complement Structures
Complements in Kisska function slightly differently from English. Complements, when simplified, are basically an extra description of the subject or object used to complete the verb phrase. Let's go over some types and explain which are allowed and which are not.

Predicative nominals as the subject complement are allowed.
English Examples:
She is the boss
That lecture bored me

Predicative adjectives as the subject complement are allowed.
English Examples:
It is red
It seems ready
It becomes ill
It stays fresh

Predicative nominals as the object compliment are not allowed. If you are confused about the difference here, notice how the bolded word (ignore the articles) is now after an object pronoun as opposed to being after a verb.

We call her the boss
They elected him president
They made him king

To translate this, you will generally need a preposition to be placed on that complement. Most typically, a simple sua (meaning as/like) will work. Let's modify the English sentences to show you the valid way of constructing the sentence in Kisska:

We see her as the boss.
They elected him as the president.
They made him as the king.

And then, Predicative adjectives as the object compliment are not allowed.

I find this cool
She proved them wrong
That made him lazy

To translate this, basically you add the verb "to be" before the adjective. Once again, I'll modify the sentence accordingly:

I find this to be cool.
She proved them to be wrong.
That caused him to be lazy.

2.4 - Ditransitive Structures
Kisska does not allow a specific ditransitive structure where the pronoun or noun is treated as an indirect object without a preposition. Kisska requires a preposition (to or for in this case.) to specify indirect objects.

He gave her ten dollars -> He gave ten dollars to her
I passed Paul the ball -> I passed the ball to Paul
She is baking him a cake -> She is baking a cake for him

3 - Articles

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3.1 - Articles
There are no articles (the, a/an) like there is in English. You must infer whether or not a noun has or would have an article from the context of the sentence. Despite this, there are potential alternatives to more or less express the concept. One can reuse the number for one (which is "Ai" in Kisska) to replicate the indefinite article a/an and one could use the determiner for this/that (Which is Sim/Das in Kisska) to replicate the definite article the.

4 - Nouns

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4.1 - Plurality
On default, nouns are singular. You can pluralize nouns by adding the -i suffix. -i changes into -ni when -i is put before anything that ends in a vowel.

4.2 - Class
There is no grammatical gender or noun classes in Kisska.

4.3 - Case
There is no overt case marking in Kisska.

4.4 - Gerunds
Gerunds are basically verbs turned into or being used as nouns. To convert a verb into a gerund. You simply reuse the infinitive form of a verb. However, this ambiguously looks like an infinitive. If you want to be clear, when you can reuse the infinitive form and suffix -to (meaning action) onto the end of the verb. This allows you to form the concept in unambiguous isolation.

5 - Pronouns

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5.1 - Personal Pronouns
Here's a list of Personal Pronouns

Mi (means I, me)
Du (means you but specifically one person)
U (means he/him/she/her/it, singular they/them)
Danu (means he/him)
Nimu (means she/her)
Sanu (means one, can also be used as a gender ambiguous pronoun.)
Saku (means it)
Ismi (means we, us)
Isdu (means you but specifically multiple people, in other words, y'all, ye.)
Isu (means they, them)

5.2 - Reflexive Pronouns
One way to express this is to re-use a personal pronoun twice with one as the subject and the other as the object of the sentence.

Kisska Example:
Mi bisas mi
English Translation:
I see myself
Literal Translation:
I see me

However there is one exception to this rule, this simply will not work for 3rd person pronouns. You must instead use (3rd Person Pronoun)+sif.
Alternatively, you can just suffix -sif onto a pronoun. sif basically means "self" so it's exactly like English -self.

5.3 - Relative Pronouns
The relative pronoun system is very similar to the one in English.
Here's the list of relative pronouns and their appropriate translations:

Das = that/which
Wa = what
Wasak = what (specifically of nonphysical phenomenon)
Wasut = what (specifically of physical objects)
Wasan = who/whom
Wayas = whose
Watem = when
Wago = where
Wawai = how
Wafe = why

Word order dictates whether the relative pronoun is a subject or an object. SVO (as in, the relative pronoun is right by the verb.) makes the relative pronoun a subject. OSV (as in, there is a non-verb before the relative pronoun.) makes the relative pronoun an object. For example:

English:
The person that helped me.
The tool that/which helped me.
Kisska:
San das hepas mi. (lit. person that helps me)
Wo das hepas mi. (lit. tool that helps me)

English:
The person that I helped.
The tool that/which I made.
Lezhi:
San das mi hepad. (lit. person that I helped)
Wo das mi mauad. (lit. tool that I made)

When using prepositions with relative adverbs, they must always be put before the relative pronoun. Typically
in English speech, the preposition tends to be put at the end of the sentence but doing that is not allowed in Kisska.
Observe:

English:
The person I talk to.
The person that I talk to.
The person to whom/who I talk.
Lezhi:
San ta wasan mi nasas. (lit. Person to who I talk)

5.4 - Pro-Drop
If you wish, you can drop the subject pronoun from a sentence if you believe one can contextually understand you. Kisska is also
fine with dropping typical English dummy pronouns.

Kisska Examples:
Fumas
English Translation:
It's raining
Literal Translation:
Rains

6 - Adjectives

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6.1 - Forming Adjectives
In Kisska, typically adjectives are formed by adding the -ya suffix on the end. Nouns without modification can be used as adjectives and their meaning is either defined from the noun's own meaning or its deviated meaning from its -ya version. However, typically you use the -ya form for adjectival descriptions.

6.2 - Comparatives
In Kisska, comparatives can be formed by using -me as a suffix on the noun version of the adjective form. It's exactly like English -er as in higher, redder, etc. Unlike English, Kisska is perfectly regular in this regard. In English, the comparative form of good is better which is irregular. If it were regular it would have been gooder which is obviously wrong in English but that's how it will always function in Kisska.

6.3 - Superlatives
In Kisska, superlatives can be formed by using -mas as a suffix on the noun version of the adjective form. It's exactly like English -est as in highest, reddest, etc. Unlike English, Kisska is perfectly regular in this regard. In English, the superlative form of good is best which is irregular. If it were regular it would have been goodest which is obviously wrong in English but that's how it will always function in Kisska.

6.4 - Comparisons of Equality/Inequality
To form a comparison of the same quality (the as...as construction in English), you will use just one "sua"

Kisska Example:
Danu seas daya sua nimu
English Translation:
He is as big as her
Literal Translation:
He is big as her

To form comparisons of inequality, there are two words. Uba is used to mean "more than" and Uda is used to mean "less than" When placing Uba/Uda, you should put it where the word "than" would be in English. Using words like more/less (me/ler in Kisska) are optional but can be useful when clarifying that Uba/Uda are being used as a comparison word.

Kisska Example:
Danu seas daya(o dame) uba nimu
English Translation:
He is bigger than her.
Literal Translation:
He is big(or bigger) over her.

Kisska Example:
Danu seas daya(o daler) uda nimu
English Translation:
He is less big than her.
Literal Translation:
He is big(or less big) under her.

6.5 - Participles
A participle is when a verb is turned into or used as an adjective. To form participles, you first take the forms conjugated for tense. More information about verb tense conjugation in Verb Stuff #.3.

Foisa = to walk

Foisas = walks/walk
Foisad = walked
Foisam = will walk

The -ya suffix is used on these forms of the verb to form participles. This makes sense since participles are adjectives. English is limited to only present participles but Kisska is able to do present/past/future participles. While you can translate such concepts in English, it would be non-grammatical to use "was walking" and "will be walking" as a normal adjective. Instead relative clause phrases would be used in translation to make it sound correct.

Foisasya = walking
Foisadya = was walking, that was walking
Foisamya = will be walking that will be walking

Kisska Example:
Foisamya san tunas gesia.
English Translation:
The man that will be walking is doing something.
Literal Translation:
Will be walking man does something.

This also functions for the past particle which English is stuck to just the past. Once again, Kisska does all three.

Bises = is seen
Biset = was seen
Bisem = will be seen

Bisesya = being seen, that is seen
Bisetya = was being seen, that was seen
Bisemya = will being seen, that will be seen

While this section is intended for adjectives, I would like to mention this -ya can be used to form adverbial participles as well. These can end up translating and appearing as English gerunds except the difference you shouldn't expect this "gerund" to syntactically attach to the rest of the sentence. In other words, it's like saying "adverb comma rest of sentence"

"Being deceived can make one feel angry" <- "being deceived" = Gerund. Notice how the gerund functions as a subject noun and links with the verb can+make
"Being deceived, he became angry" <- "being deceived" = Adverbial participle. Notice how it doesn't attach to the main verb as instead a pronoun took its place as subject.

7 - Adverbs

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7.1 - Forming Adverbs
Usually adverbs are formed via the -ya suffix. Some specific words have properties which allow them to form adverbs.

Wa (means what/which) when prefixed on words can form interrogative adverbs.
Tem (means time) when suffixed on words can form temporal adverbs that deal with the frequency of something.

8 - Verbs

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8.1 - Forming Verbs
Verbs are typically formed by adding the -a verb suffix. If the word ends in an a already, then -wa is used instead. Therefore, every verb in this language ends in a. All conjugations of verbs are 100% regular as there are no irregular forms.

8.2 - Infinitive
The base form or the dictionary form of a verb is the infinitive. This is formed by adding the -a verb suffix. If the word ends in an a already, then -wa is used instead.

The infinitive is used after the first conjugated verb and can translate as "to VERB" or "VERB" in the case of English bare infinitives. Also, Kisska does not ever use "to" on the infinitive form of verbs.

8.3 - Tense
The three basic tenses in Kisska are Present, Past, and Future. These are formed by changing the -a or -wa portion
accordingly:

-as/-was = Present tense
-ad/-wad = Past tense
-am/-wam = Future tense

Without overt marking, the aspect of these verb forms can be interpreted as either Simple or Continuous.

8.4 - Voice
On default, the forms -a/-as/-ad/-am (and the w variants) are in the active voice. To make them passive voice, you switch the vowel from a to e.

-e/-we = Infinitive Passive
-es/-wes = Present Passive
-ed/-wed = Past Passive
-em/-wem = Future Passive

8.5 - Perfect Aspect
Perfect aspect can be added to a verb by placing the perfect aspect particle "bu" right by the verb.

8.6 - Continuous Aspect
This is formed by using the verb Kona (means to continue in Kisska before the main verb.)

8.7 - Emphatic Mood
This is formed by using the verb Toa (means to do in Kisska) before the main verb.

8.8 - Subjunctive Mood {unfinished}
This is indicated via putting the subjunctive particle "lo" right before the main verb. This even goes after the negation word ne/neya. This word can generally translate as may in English, specifically the may that indicates possibility sort of like the words maybe/possibly.

Kisska Example:
Mi wisas danu lo tikas tem ta mi.
English Translation:
I want that he tells the time to me.
Literal Translation:
I want he (subjunctive particle) indicates time to me.

Kisska Example:
Mi ne lefas, mi lo ganas.
English Translation:
I don't know, I may go.
I don't know, I may possibly go.
Literal Translation:
I not know, I (subjunctive particle) go.

8.9 - Conditional Mood
The main word you use for this is kua meaning "if". The word would and then are not written but implied by the usage/presence of if within the sentence.
Also be aware this applies for conditional if/would.

Kisska Example:
Mi ganas kua mi yasad mon.
English Translation:
I would go if I had money.
Literal Translation:
I go if I had money.

Kisska Example:
Kua mi yasad mon, mi ganas.
English Translation:
If I had money, I would go.
If I had money, then I would go.
Literal Translation:
If I had money, I go.

If you're only saying the word would in a sentence and not the if portion, all you have to do is put kua at the very end of the clause/sentence. This works because from the perspective of Kisska, you're cutting off all the contents within the if clause leaving only the implied would placed on the main verb.

Kisska Example:
Mi ganas kua.
English Translation:
I would go.
Literal Translation:
I go if.

8.10 - Optative Mood
The main word for this is the usage of the verb Sakwisa meaning "to wish". Which conjugated in present tense " Sakwisas" and combined with pro-drop, it can translate as may. Specifically the may in sentences like "May you live a long life, May the devil take you, May you enjoy your stay" From the Kisska perspective these can be understood as "(I) wish (that) you live a long life, (I) wish (the) devil take you, (I) wish (that) you enjoy your stay."

8.11 - Imperative Mood
Imperatives are formed mainly by using the infinitive form of a verb and removing the subject pronoun.

8.12 - Desiderative Mood
This is simply expressed by using and conjugating the verb "Wisa" meaning "to want" and placing it before the main verb.

8.13 - Negation
You can negate a clause by using the word ne (meaning not) or neya (meaning not). There's really no difference between the two expect for that neya only means not while ne means no and not. Therefore, neya is less ambiguous and ne is just faster and feels better. Also, generally ne/neya goes right before the verb and goes after any additional adverbs.

English sometimes uses the verb do in negated clauses. Do not ever do this. From the English perspective, the do is implied.

Kisska Example
Danu ne pagas.
English Translation
He doesn't work.
Literal Translation
He not works.

Kisska Example
Ne pagas danu?
English Translation
Doesn't he work?
Literal Translation
Not work he?

8.14 - Questions
Yes/No questions are formed by inverting the subject and verb order.

Kisska Example
Kias du hepas mi?
English Translation
Can you help me?
Literal Translation
Can you help me?

English sometimes uses the verb do in questions. Do not ever do this. From the English perspective, the do is implied.

Kisska Example
Wisas du hepas mi?
English Translation
Do you want to support me?
Literal Translation
Want you help me?

-Here are the main question words in the Language.
Wasut = what/which (specifically of physical objects)
Wasak = what/which (specifically of nonphysical things, affairs, issues, phenomena)
Wasan = who/whom
Watem = when
Wago = where
Wawai = how
Wafe = why
Wamit = how much

9 - Interjections

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9.1 - Noun Interjections
Forming noun interjections simply use a noun in its base form and it's treated as a clipped version of (there is a, that is a, this is a)+noun.

9.2 - Verb Interjections {unfinished}
Verb injections use a conjugated verb as an inerjection. It can be interpreted as [...]
You can also create sound effects by taking the infinitive form of the verb and doubling it.

10 - Deviation

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10.1 - Deviation Logic
Genereally there are two methods of deviation. You either use affixations or you make compound words. Nouns/Prepositions/Conjunctions exist in plain forms. Adjectives/Adverbs/Verbs are deviated via Part of Speech suffixes.

Otherwise, compounding makes up everything else. When compounding words, the final or the rightmost word is considered the head word and anything added before it is considered to be a modifier of some kind which creates a new variation of the head word. Basically fishapple should still be considered a kind of apple and applefish should still be considered a kind of fish whether literally or metaphorically.

Noun+noun combinations are considered to be "transformative" as in, the final composition of the word doesn't fully have to adhere to the individual components that made it. It is similar to the word "yellowcake" in English whereas there is definitely no cake to be found there but you can vaguely see the connection. Notably, English also removes the space between the words as opposed to saying "a yellow cake".

Adjective+noun combinations are possible but generally adjectives should be used to refer to a particular instance or version of the noun and not a "transformed" version of a noun. It's basically the difference I demonstrated above. Yellow cake vs Yellowcake.

10.2 - Deviation Options {unfinished}
Noun+Noun
Adj+Noun
Object Noun+Verb
Prep+Prep
Prep+Adj
Prep+Adj Suffix

10.3 - The word Kos and Yen. {unfinished}

Kos (meaning cause) is mainly used to form causatives. You suffix Kos before a noun, adjective, or verb.

If you suffix Kos before a noun or adjective, Kos forms a noun that means "making (someone/something) be Noun or Adjective" or "Noun/Adjective+ization" For example:

Nau (means nature)
Kos (means cause)
Naukos (means naturalization, as in, you are actively naturalizing something)

If you suffix Kos before a verb, Kos forms a noun that means "making (someone/something) do Verb".

Since Kos is a noun, it can become an adjective or a verb by adding the -ya or -a suffix respectively. As an adjective, Kos becomes a participle.

As a verb, Kos simply forms a causative version of the verb. "to make (someone/something) do verb"
Kisska Example:
Mi lafakosad danu.
English Translation:
I made him sleep.
I caused him to sleep.
Literal Translation:
I sleep-caused him.

11 - Foreign Word Borrowing
[]
[]

12 - Extra Systems

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12.1 - Cardinal Numbers
The ones place is simple. Numbers are as you expect them to be:

Sia = zero
Ai = one
Tui = two
Tsi = three
Fin = four
Fem = five
Sik = six
Sip = seven
Ot = eight
Nai = nine

Once you start getting to the ten's place, there aren't separate words in English like eleven, twelve, and etc. Instead, you would reuse 10 and put the ones place number before it. For example:

Set = ten
Setai = eleven
Settui = twelve
Settsi = thirteen
Setfin = fourteen
Setfem = fifteen
Setsik = sixteen
Setsip = seventeen
Setot = eighteen
Setnai = nineteen

For higher than 10, you place the ones place numbers before 10 and in a way, multiply it. Combining the previous technique, you can now count all the way to 100.

Tuiset = twenty
Tuisetai = twenty-one
Tuisettui = twenty-two
Tuisettsi = twenty-three
...
Tsiset = thirty
Finset = forty
Femset = fifty
Sikset = sixty
Sipset = seventy
Otset = eighty
Naiset = ninety

The number 100 and 1000 function in a similar manner. Note how words like a and and are never used:

Som = a hundred
Somai = a hundred and one
Tuisomai = two hundred and one
Tostuisomai = a thousand two hundred and one
Tuisettos = twenty thousand
Somtos = hundred thousand

12.2 - Ordinal Numbers
Ordinal numbers are formed by taking the cardinal number and prefixing num- at the beginning. It's similar to
saying object number one, object number two, etc.

Numsia = zeroth
Numai = first
Numtui = second
Numtsi = third
...
Numset = tenth
Numsetai = eleventh
etc...

12.3 - Decreasing Fractions
These numbers are formed by taking the cardinal number and suffixing -sin at the end.

Tuisin = half
Tsisin = third
Finsin = quarter/fourth
Femsin = fifth
etc...

12.4 - Times
These numbers are formed by the taking the cardinal number and suffixing -tem at the end.

Aitem = once, one time
Tuitem = twice, two times
Tsitem = thrice, three times
Fintem = four times
Femtem = five times
etc...

Last Edit: May 1, 2019 14:15:33 GMT -5 by Bizz

Bizz
Member

Posts: 7,299

Official Kisska Topic Aug 10, 2018 17:51:06 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Bizz on Aug 10, 2018 17:51:06 GMT -5

Kisska Dictionary, 5739 entries (5/1/2019)
Base words: 449

SPOILER: Click to show

Last Edit: May 1, 2019 13:42:51 GMT -5 by Bizz

Bizz
Member

Posts: 7,299

Official Kisska Topic Aug 10, 2018 17:52:41 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Bizz on Aug 10, 2018 17:52:41 GMT -5

Okay so I know I said that I was okay with Lezhi but Kisska sort of got made and it does some cool things and I like how the phonology turned out so oh well I might as well document everything so far and maybe update it everynow and then. It sort of serves as a way to actually show you how Lezhi is organized semantically and gives some nice ideas for making Lezhi words given some conversion. Also the freedom in word deviation is so fun.

I suggest you wait until roughly 7000 entries are made as then it will sort of match Lezhi in terms of being able to translate things. Why 7000? Because everytime a word is made, there will typically be a -ya deviation and/or an -a deviation. Basically adding one word makes two/three.

7000/2 = 3500. Sort of where Lezhi was at 3 months after its creation.

Last Edit: Aug 14, 2018 14:41:49 GMT -5 by Bizz

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 15, 2018 21:29:54 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Aug 15, 2018 21:29:54 GMT -5

Random Kisska Sentence demonstrating the language's semantic relation tendencies:

Kisska:
Slafwisya san kluat slafkluni na slafat an slafskag in slaflad.
English Translation:
A sleepy person wore pajamas and slept on a bed in the bedroom.
English Literal:
Sleepy person wore sleep-clothes and slept at sleep-mat in sleep-room.

polar principle
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 16, 2018 9:56:20 GMT -5

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Post by polar principle on Aug 16, 2018 9:56:20 GMT -5

ENG / LEZ / KIS

midway upon the journey of our life
i found myself within a forest dark
for the straightforward pathway had been lost.

nin dutsepe yan kömi su sutaga
wami bas zonwegos nichan nelu betsago
feyen tsobi tipe tsotes bas zostsutas.

in sufwai pen leptangan di wi lep
mi biswisat mi inlim nelus tumsit
fenye yokkamya hat saimatana sutwai.

biswisa = to seek, to search, to look for
inlim = within
fenye = because
yokkamya = straightforward
saimatan = to lose
(i'm not well accustomed to making kisska formations so these are questionable.)

Last Edit: Aug 16, 2018 10:02:06 GMT -5 by polar principle

polar principle Member Posts: 1,421 Staff Member	Official Kisska Topic Aug 16, 2018 10:28:59 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by polar principle on Aug 16, 2018 10:28:59 GMT -5 Lyngua, for fun (but at this point it's just an exceedingly ugly version of lezhi): nin dutsepko miz sussemmiz sutagazh min bas inwegogund nichan betsinnungo betsagow feyen tsobin tipen ~ intsutatula.

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 18, 2018 16:50:10 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Aug 18, 2018 16:50:10 GMT -5

in sufwai pen leptangan di wi lep
mi biswisat mi inlim nelus tumsit
fenye yokkamya hat saimatana sutwai.

^
|
Wow, So yeah, this is actual proof that Kisska was better designed for a general audience. The grammar here is near perfect except for the end part where you attempted a passive. I can tell you used Lezhi's method but that doesn't apply here. Due to the nature of Kisska, there's actually multiple ways to handle this.

Currently, I have decided to use yena/yenas/yenat/yennu + verb infinitve to form the passive. Yena basically means become.

Alternatively, you could have said "the path has left me."

I won't speak much about word choices for now since everything hasn't really been finished yet.

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 18, 2018 17:01:35 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Aug 18, 2018 17:01:35 GMT -5

Random Kisska Word Usage notes: The Usage of -ai to mean "first".

There is a common pattern in Kisska (and Lezhi too with its analogous word being wa.) where one can use the word ai (meaning 1) to mean "first". Ai by itself does not mean first and it never will but if you tack it on the end of words, it can add a "first" meaning. How so? This is based off of the pseudo ordinal number # construction such as. Ex. "Do you want ball (number) 1? or ball (number) 2?" In other words "Do you want the first ball or the second ball?".

So we can reuse this pattern on various words. This is how the months are made.

ex. Mosai = month 1, January

Another creative use I recently did was on abstract words like sak (meaning affair, phenomenon, etc.) and kin (meaning quality, attribute, etc.) Sakai means origin (first phenomenon/mention of something) and Kinai (first of its kind, original)

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Aug 26, 2018 21:43:16 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Aug 26, 2018 21:43:16 GMT -5

Documenting the Usage of the Word Tan/Tana in Kisska:

Tan in Kisska by itself means directing or leading and thus tana means to direct or to lead. It's a simple word and yet it's very useful and feels a bit more loose/vague than the English translation would have you believe.

-Tana in deviations is typically used to indicate that something is being directed, led, sent to, driven, steered, guided, applied to, injection, thrown to, or given to in some way. Tan is there to just be the noun version of the -Tana word. Here are some examples of some categories. This is not exhaustive.

[Directing]

Futtana = to walk (to direct one's feet to something)
Guntana = to shoot (to direct a gun to something)
Lustana = to shine (directing light towards something)
Luftana = to blow (directing air to something)

[Driving]

Fluktana = to pilot (directing a plane)
Miutana = to sail (directing a boat)
Waktana = to drive (directing a vehicle/driving a vehicle)

[Application]

Fettana = to cook (directing heat to/applying heat on something)
Fostana = to roast (directing fire on/to something)
Hoitana = to anoint (directing oil to/applying oil on something)

[Injection/Putting into]

Burtana = to incriminate (directing crime to)
Datana = to enlarge (directing/applying bigness to something)
Fuestaitana = to oxygenate (direct oxygen to)
Latana = to shrink (directing/applying smallness to something)
Lestana = to teach (direct learning to someone)

[Throwing]

Skentana = to stone (directing/throwing stones to)

[Giving/Assign]

Dostana = to scare (to direct/give fear to someone)
Maittana = to weight (to direct/give/assign a weight to)
Mistana = to water, to hydrate (directing/giving water to something)
Montana = to buy (directing money to something, giving money in exchange for something)
Suttana = to give (to direct objects to someone)
Wettana = to evaluate (to direct/give/assign a value to)

-Tan can sometimes be used to mean a kind of directing/leading/orientation.

Custan = sexual orientation (sex+directing)
Lessantan = student orientation (student+directing)
Santanki = leadership skills (people+directing+ability)

Tan- can sometimes be used to mean leading/directing onto a word or to indicate an action/thing being directed into a certain direction.

Tancim = development (directing+change, changing something towards something)
Tansak = direction

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Sept 9, 2018 7:10:46 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Sept 9, 2018 7:10:46 GMT -5

So yeah I finally broke down and added three more forms of conjugation, -es, -et, -em.

So now it's
As = active simple present
At = active simple past
Am = active simple future
Es = passive simple present
Et = passive simple past

Em = passive simple future

On an unrelated side note, I realized that Kisska is actually closer to being back where Lezhi is than I thought so perhaps my 7000 figure was an overestimation. Once I feel like I get all the necessary base words I'll change some of the base words to help soften and make Kisska flow a bit better. I actually think it generally has a good flow but there are some unpalatable combinations and snags here and there to snuff out so be aware of that. After that's done, I really shouldn't expect much to change afterwards making Kisska very stable.

Last Edit: Sept 9, 2018 7:51:58 GMT -5 by Bizz

Bizz
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Official Kisska Topic Sept 9, 2018 7:44:33 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Sept 9, 2018 7:44:33 GMT -5

Another silly sentence showing off Kisska's semantic relation tendencies:

Kisska:
Klosya klos di klosmes citas an u kloscit an kloshus kic kloskef an kloskai.
English Translation:
A royal monarch of royalty sits on their throne in a palace with a crown in the territory of the monarch.
English Literal:
Monarch-ish monarch of monarch-class sits at one's monarch-seat at monarch-house with monarch-hat at monarch-country.

Last Edit: Sept 9, 2018 23:54:01 GMT -5 by Bizz

Bizz
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Posts: 7,299

Official Kisska Topic Sept 18, 2018 21:08:55 GMT -5

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Post by Bizz on Sept 18, 2018 21:08:55 GMT -5

So wow, I think it's official. I'm going to be moving on to Kisska now and not Lezhi.

Unfortunately I haven't fully brought Kisska up to speed yet but with how well things have been going design-wise, I got to say, this design is very well refined and now I seriously truly doubt I can go any further. This is the final version of it all. I usually never make promises because I take promises seriously and I am definitely not the most liable person but I think I can promise this as the last design. Besides I'm getting tired of these reworks so it's pretty lucky I found the sweet spot.

It's sort of funny because there was a version of Lezhi has sort of behaved like Kisska known as Leshi/Leshim or something I think. I gave up on it for whatever reason. Kisska originally came in the form of Skaina which was supposed to be some sort of mixture of some Lezhi stuff, some subconcious stuff about some "sky people" (hence the name) with some Hweder stuff. Eventually it slowly became its own beast and slowly turned into an idealization of the Lezhi experiment.

Last Edit: Sept 18, 2018 21:09:54 GMT -5 by Bizz

polar principle
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Official Kisska Topic Sept 19, 2018 0:19:01 GMT -5

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Post by polar principle on Sept 19, 2018 0:19:01 GMT -5

Do you consider Lezhi to be a finished language?

I'm also going to suggest one thing to you regarding translation. When translating over from another language, I think that it is almost better if the grammar transfer is not perfect. I think (and correct me if I am wrong) that you consider shifts in grammar when translating to be indicative of a loss in meaning. As in, the creator intended to relay a certain message, and this shift causes a distortion in the message, thus it is bad. However, I think it's just as valid to think of such shifts as a gain in meaning -- and perhaps not as distortions but as elaborations. And these elaborations -- they may even cause clarification, as though certain knots of the original grammar are being untangled.

I guess it's easy to assume that translations are inherently lossy, due to programs like Google Translate or what have you -- but I think that there is also a heuristic involved in translation -- certain choices are made, often meaningful ones.

Oddly I think this almost sums up the history of all civilizations, just various ideas being translated from the context of one civilization to another over the ages -- but I don't think that this is lossy -- rather, each layer brings its own elaboration and nuance to the idea in question.

polar principle
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Official Kisska Topic Sept 19, 2018 0:57:01 GMT -5

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Post by polar principle on Sept 19, 2018 0:57:01 GMT -5

I suppose a drawback of Kisska is that you lose some of the cuteness factor -- Lezhi is like pixel art, Kisska is closer to watercolors flowing over each other.

An idea I played with in my language is having dedicated prefixes and suffixes, which had analogous meanings to some of the roots. Russian is a good language in this regard, it's almost polysynthetic, many words which would be basic units in English are derivations from other roots: therussianblog.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/russian-prefixes-derivational-morphology/

polar principle
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Official Kisska Topic Sept 19, 2018 1:12:28 GMT -5

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Post by polar principle on Sept 19, 2018 1:12:28 GMT -5

for ex.

walk ... can mean walk or go

outwalk (i outwalked from house to work)
inwalk (i inwalked to house to sleep)

intowalk (the small stream intowalked with large river)

upwalk (he upwalked the stairs)
downwalk (he downwalked into madness)

circumwalk (he circumwalked metal pole and did not bump into it)
avoidwalk (bank robber avoidwalked person guarding the bank)
aroundwalk (you've been aroundwalking all day, you must be tired)

overwalk (N: place above where people walk, like overpass)
underwalk (N: place below where people walk, "underhanded"-connotation)

acrosswalk (he acrosswalked street to ice cream store)

approachwalk (he approachwalked my friend and asked him what time it was)

awaywalk (he awaywalked from our group)

towalk (he towalked to his destination)

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