Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 24, 2018 2:32:18 GMT -5
"Heuristic Search Theory" Given a finite description of a state-space problem, a computer can be programmed to generate the state space of the problem while checking to see if it has produced a solution. The generation process consists simply of producing finite descriptions (data-structures) for the nodes of the state space and for their connections to each other. With a large, difficult state-space problem, it will not be possible for the computer to generate descriptions for each of the nodes and connections between nodes of the state space of that problem. Rather, the computer may generate only a relatively small portion of that state space, and can check only that portion, to see whether it includes a path between nodes, which is a solution to the problem. "Naperoviwi Viwi Royape" Yes chö*1 chago*2 zhita yaun bisho yan ku·zha, kes kichözhis*3 kichö tapuo wokis*4 ku·zha yaun bisho zhateo yes tsoyus tapuo vis kitsoo le tsotes bas kitis gewitsu. Peji yan woki wejis*5 jen labi nin yes kitis chago közhita (köroi·bukö) kun köchorupu*6 jeo kun köle köbita tan nidepu. Jen dati, bake bisho yan ku·zha, kichö ne des kes wokis zhita kun wama fen köchorupu jeo köbita zhapun köchorupu yan ku·zha yan so bisho. Denipudzus, kichö kes wokis wacha bis*7 lati ji yan lole ku·zha, jeo kes tsoyus wacha lole ji, tapuo vis kitsoo le nijes tagape*8 zhapun köchorupu, so zongewitsu yan bisho. 1* considering 2* finite 3* to program 4* generate 5* consists 6* nodes, etym: in russian is узел or knot 7* relatively 8* path Adjusted Text: "Naperoviwi Viwi Royape" Yes chös bin cha zhita yan kuzha bisho, kes kichözhis kichö tapuo wokis kuzha yaun bisho zhateo yes tsoyus tapuo vis kitsoo le tsotes bas kitis gewitsu. Woki peji nijes jen labi yes kitis cha közhita (köroibukö) tan köchorupu yan kuzha jeo kun köle köbita tan nidepu. Jen dati, bake kuzha bisho, kichö ne des kes wokis zhita kun wama köchorupu jeo köbita zhapun köchorupu yan kuzha yan gole bisho. Denipudzus, kichö kes wokis wacha jen bi lati ji yan lole kuzha, jeo kes tsoyus wacha lole ji, tapuo vis kitsoo le nijes pe zhapun köchorupu, so zongewitsus yan bisho.
------ -Don't know how I feel about naperoviwi being heuristic. Like it makes sense but I feel there's something off about it. Regardless I will allow it for now.
-Yup. Chös bin is a perfect way to translate this definition of "consider". I will put this in the dictionary now.
-Remember, I made the "yes" word officially optional. Just letting you know any case you didn't get the memo. Unfortunately I haven't
written that verbs can just be reused as is to indicate that they are gerunds/nominalized. I'll do that one day.
-I'll just reuse cha for finite. Let me know if this is some specific kind of "finite" or something. Nucha (number-wise limitation/limit on the number of something) could be potentially made to emphasize the finite count aspect if that's necessary.
-Just ignore the yaun vs yan fixes for now. I really need to write that section (and if I have, it need to be improved, fixed, or something.) -Okay so hyphens actually can be used in the Latinscript version of Lezhi. You don't need to use interpuncts. That's specific to the Lezhi script. I definitely need to write the punctuation stuff at some point but I'm trying to eliminate the need for using hyphens to indicate that something is one word as Lezhi naturally just combines everything together. Now you may say "Bizz, how are we going to distinguish actual words versus just tying something together?" and I say, "Well actually we've sort of blurred that distinction already". Basically I am blurring that line on purpose because honestly it really will just amount to the same thing semantically. If there's an ambiguity issue either 1. I can just reshuffle or change the words in some way or 2. Deal with it because languages have ambiguity anyway and you understand by context. Regardless I guess you can keep doing what you are doing for now until I get everything perfectly sorted out.
-For the record you were totally fine with your usages of yan here and there. It's just stuff like kuzha bisho instead of bisho yan kuzha just works better for me. I just like to use nouns as noun-adjuncts often. -Not sure if I wrote this anywhere but yes you can imply passive voice via just dropping the subject and relying off of context to interpret that as you have done in "Kes kichözhis kichö..." -Kichözhi is pretty good. I can see that you derived the verb definition from the noun definition which should be "computer language/programming" I assume.
-Woki seems like a good fit for generate. I will allow it for now. I really wonder what the connotational difference is from a word like create or produce though. -Just updated the word labi so you can say simply (which is labis). Regardless "jen labi" also works fine. Any adverb can be simply recreated via prepositional phrases. Just make sure you use the right preposition ahaha.
-I will definitely have to look into translating consist and evaluate your "weji" idea which I think sort of works but I want to still look into things. Alternatively, one could potentially use the word include or "nije" in Lezhi. Not perfect but it can do.
-Chorupu as node is cool. I'd rather just say Choru though. I'm also considering using Nöpu instead. I'll just just keep as Chorupu in the adjusted version for now though. -Hmm, I can see why I put that "for" as the definition in "ku+n". I definitely will have to change that soon. If I put any "tan" in the adjustment then uh, just ignore that.
-"Of that problem..." So is not the correct that for that. That would be gole. Although I think you knew this.
-Nice usage of denipudzus for rather. Totally adding that. -Alright so I added path as another definition to the base word "pe". If you really need to get at that pathy feel. then there are various ways that can be accomplished: Tijö pe (a physical path/way) Nago pe, pe fen/yan nago (nature path/trail, path from/of nature) Otherwise way and path are pretty interchangeable in this context.
-Personal notes, add the uo slang at some point, Investigate the dummy object it, figure out how to better express the preposition for in the language, ...
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Post by polar principle on May 24, 2018 3:16:33 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. I was just afraid of double nouns because you said there were no ditransitive verbs but that's actually unrelated now that I think about it.
Unrelated: We have Nevö and Gevö, but should not the definitions be switched? Should not Nevö be to lack clothes (naked) and Gevö be to remove clothes?
Heuristic could also be Zhepeviwi, and Zhepe could be offshoot, prong.
I'm attempting to make shades of meaning to avoid minimalism, generate seems more mechanical thus the inclusion of "ki". edit: the difference from "kiti" I guess is that "kiti" is more focused on the thing (product) itself whereas "woki" is more focused on the process.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 24, 2018 5:09:37 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. I was just afraid of double nouns because you said there were no ditransitive verbs but that's actually unrelated now that I think about it. Unrelated: We have Nevö and Gevö, but should not the definitions be switched? Should not Nevö be to lack clothes (naked) and Gevö be to remove clothes? Heuristic could also be Zhepeviwi, and Zhepe could be offshoot, prong. I'm attempting to make shades of meaning to avoid minimalism, generate seems more mechanical thus the inclusion of "ki". edit: the difference from "kiti" I guess is that "kiti" is more focused on the thing (product) itself whereas "woki" is more focused on the process.
Oh lol. See this is exactly what happens when I don't write things properly enough. But yeah, noun adjuncts are different from verbs accepting multiple noun arguments. I'll fix that one day.
Wow wtf Yoshiko I thought I knew your logic.
Yeah I'm going to switch nevö and gevö in interest of consistency.
And yeah I figured that's what you are getting at with the wo in woki thing. I interpreted it as you referring to a machine generating stuff or using functions to produce outputs as wo tends to carry mechanical thematics with it. So yeah I guess my guess was sort of what you were getting at. Works for me. Added.
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Post by polar principle on May 24, 2018 5:32:28 GMT -5
Well firstly while learning the language I inadvertently learned many aspects of grammar and linguistics and started tying them together with other languages that I knew. Then, this might just be because it's an echo of Earth Language, but it's been affecting my thought processes very much. I seem to be more hyperaware of minuscule, mundane ideas now.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 24, 2018 15:05:36 GMT -5
Well firstly while learning the language I inadvertently learned many aspects of grammar and linguistics and started tying them together with other languages that I knew. Then, this might just be because it's an echo of Earth Language, but it's been affecting my thought processes very much. I seem to be more hyperaware of minuscule, mundane ideas now. Interesting you say that as Earth Language has definitely affected me too. It's hard to explain but due to its heavy synthetic nature I get this (possibly unfounded) feeling of being more connected with nature and the world around me as it feels like each base word explains to me how everything is related to each other in some way. It's a cozy feeling to me for some reason. Sort of like the idea that we are all stardust or genetically related. It gives off that kinship vibe to me.
I've even started using a little bit of Earth Language semantics to describe some things subtly in English. For example, I've noticed I've been using friction more often than I once would to describe my inability to do something because I impose standards on myself, in other words, a kind of "friction" which prevents me from getting into "motion".
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Post by polar principle on May 25, 2018 12:58:18 GMT -5
I guess we should have guidelines on how to use Da and La at least right, if not a definition? Da: Relates to largeness and large amount/quantity La: Relates to smallness and small amount/quantity
I've, recently, been sort of enamored by this idea of inscribing a set of symbols as a constant inside one's mind and utilizing this to interpret one's environment or surroundings. If anything, I think it's a method for maintaining individuality even while one's surroundings are traumatic/noisy/confusing/disorienting in some way. It's almost a defense mechanism, so maybe that's even how language started - humans saw their environment to be dangerous, confusing, disorienting, and language seems like a good psychological weapon against that. It is a comforter I think, it's like a womb that you build to encapsulate as many things as possible, or a net that you cast out to catch as much as possible. Which pretty much seems to be what language is, in the way I interpret things. Of course, there should not be something important left outside that net, I suppose, so I guess you shouldn't get too comfortable and you should always watch for unknown objects.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 25, 2018 13:47:02 GMT -5
I guess we should have guidelines on how to use Da and La at least right, if not a definition? Da: Relates to largeness and large amount/quantity La: Relates to smallness and small amount/quantity I've, recently, been sort of enamored by this idea of inscribing a set of symbols as a constant inside one's mind and utilizing this to interpret one's environment or surroundings. If anything, I think it's a method for maintaining individuality even while one's surroundings are traumatic/noisy/confusing/disorienting in some way. It's almost a defense mechanism, so maybe that's even how language started - humans saw their environment to be dangerous, confusing, disorienting, and language seems like a good psychological weapon against that. It is a comforter I think, it's like a womb that you build to encapsulate as many things as possible, or a net that you cast out to catch as much as possible. Which pretty much seems to be what language is, in the way I interpret things. Of course, there should not be something important left outside that net, I suppose, so I guess you shouldn't get too comfortable and you should always watch for unknown objects.
Alright so da/la is sort of weird in Lezhi and yes I deliberately made them have no definition when by themselves. Dati and Lati already refer to bigness and smallness and Danu and Lanu referring to many and few.
So why do this? Mainly due to lexicalness. In Lezhi lexical word boundaries (yellow stone) and compound words (yellowstone) are blurred, especially phonetically since you can not hear the space. Since they are blurred it is important that the derived words adhere to being based off of if the words were just said separately. I can allow this to happen sometimes because even normal languages do this. They just have the advantage of having tons of words and unique pronunciations that naturally distinguish themselves from another.
You see, if da and la kept their definitions you would run into a weird ambiguity issue similar to our previous chu- thing. While saying stuff like Dajema to mean excellent (many good) doesn't sound too weird. A word like Dava (many people) which means giant is sort of weird. In interest of making sure Da (and La) makes sense in every case, Da and La doesn't mean anything except in deviations to avoid this.
If this bothers you. Just view da and la as prefixes that are augmentative and diminutive in nature.
If you have some reason why I shouldn't do this. Let me know.
Funny enough, this is totally okay to do in Lespi though because Lespi makes every boundary (except for one) very clear. This is why I finally decided to give Lezhi it's own dictionary because now it's slightly off from Lespi. Regardless you can still convert and things pretty easily. RIP older Lespi texts though.
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That's a pretty interesting idea as to why language got started with regards to the psychological parts. It's not really something I think too often.
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Post by polar principle on May 25, 2018 22:53:17 GMT -5
Whoah, I was just taking a shower and it suddenly hit me how one may translate certain idiomatic usages of "would" in English. I came to this conclusion through realizing that I would translate certain "would" usages as "является" in Russian which essentially means "is" but is more fancy in the "becoming" or "arising" connotation.
Examples:
This would be the answer.
Lole zongewitsu.
This would be my watch and this would be my watch collection.
Lole zoswe mi heteti jeo lole zoswe mi heteti köta.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 26, 2018 3:18:14 GMT -5
Lezhi words unnaturally strongly adhere to a fairly consistent semantic makeup per word. (Basically the word "gas" meaning go will just refer to the motion. Not anything else... at least if used only in a literal/direct sense.) Obviously I allow liberal usage of language but it's a bit different. Like, you shouldn't stray a bit too far from whatever meaning you are getting at but such boundaries are frankly impossible to define due to the nature of language and ultimately the human mind. In other words, maybe I shouldn't care too much but at the same kind there is an obvious theme of consistency here and I guess I'd like to stick to it. The first sentence is sort of fine to me because in some context where the answer is easily found or is clear, saying that something becomes an answer can sort of be perceived as less direct than saying that it is. Regardless I think that become personally doesn't give enough of a strong vibe to imply that as it almost just sounds normal and not fully like you are being more yielding/polite/not as blunt but I can totally see it and I think that can work in some circumstances. The second sentence strikes me as odd because the watches aren't actually coming into existence or that nothing really is changing its form into watches. Don't get me wrong, context is important here as it clearly indicates that the watches are not coming into existence or that things are turning into watches.
So yeah I'd say it is distinguishable here from the other potential zo usage we could add on but I feel that goes a bit too far from the original meaning. Makes me sad though. Maybe if Lezhi was more naturalistic I would totally allow this way more because this is such a cool idea. Oh well, lol.
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Post by polar principle on May 28, 2018 3:02:45 GMT -5
Another option could be a subjunctive mood indicator (like "-chi" for the imperative). Though in English, "would" does not indicate the subjunctive mood, to me it seems to replace the subjunctive mood often along with "could". So this could translate many instances of "would" and "could". This can either be a suffix or a separate word or even a prefix.
Examples:
He would eat the strangest food.
Le muyas<SUBJ.> shocha tsuku suyati.
This would be my watch and this would be my watch collection.
Lole wes<SUBJ.> mi heteti jeo lole wes<SUBJ.> mi heteti köta.
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Post by polar principle on May 28, 2018 3:35:37 GMT -5
This could also translate
If I were to eat this food I would die
Kitroo mi muyas<SUBJ.> lole suyati mi nesus<SUBJ.>.
This translation, without indicators, seems to lose meaning. "If I eat this food I die."
Kitroo mi muyas lole suyati, mi nesus.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 28, 2018 4:25:37 GMT -5
Interesting idea. I believe there's definitely some way to re-use a word or possibly make a new word that could help convey this vibe. I tend to avoid affixes in the language by instead opting for nouns/verbs pretending to be affixes. We'll see.
The second sentence definitely raises a pretty significant issue so yeah this will definitely need to be solved.
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Bizz
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Post by Bizz on May 28, 2018 4:35:34 GMT -5
Just some drafts:
Kus (from the word condition) = auxiliary verb potentially used to mark conditions similar to would? Nechiwes (from the nonfrontational vibe of nechi and the meaning of wes) = auxiliary verb meaning polite would be??? (ew) Tsotsus ("doubt of the reality of something" "quenstionable reality") = auxiliary verb indicating subjunctive mood??? (pretty spicy) Kutsus ("doubt of the condition/situation of something" "questionable condition") (alternative of the above) Kuyetsus ("doubt of the circumstance") (ditto) Kachayetsus ("doubt of the result/outcome") (ditto, regardless of me saying ditto these all could also be potential nuanced variants.)
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Post by polar principle on Jun 3, 2018 17:11:44 GMT -5
www.sacred-texts.com/jud/tku/tku12.htmConcerning the dew, or moisture of the brain, of the ancient one, or Macroprospus. And from that skull distilleth a dew upon Him which is external, and filleth His head daily. And from that dew which floweth down from His head, that (namely) which is external, the dead are raised up in the world to come. Bin diyo, neo meti yan chö, yan nafe we, neo Macroprospus.
Chuo fen lole töbu bonchotis*1 diyo gon Dele so wes de, chuo pöyas Dele tö wepö pate.
Chuo fen lole diyo so tames lo fen Dele tö, lole wa (jen chocha) so wes de, bosvugas vu könesuwe*2 nin fozhego loleta.Concerning which is written, ...: "My head is filled with dew." It is not written "It is full with dew;" but ..., "it is filled." And it is written, Isa. xxvi. 19: "The dew of the lights is Thy dew." Of the lights--that is, from the brightness of the Ancient One. And by that dew are nourished the holy supernal ones. *3 Bin bonrozhotas, Cant. v. 2: "Bopöya jen diyo mi tö." Ne bonrozhotas le "Le pöya jen diyo;" geo "Bopöya le."
Chuo bonrozhotas le, Isa. xxvi. 19: "Diyo yan kölu wes Tu diyo." Yan kölu-- nezuyu, fen chelu yan Nafe We.
Chuo suyatis kolu vuna köwa won lole diyo.And this is that manna which is prepared for the just in the world to come. And that dew distilleth upon the ground of the holy apple trees. This is that which is written, Exod. xvi. 14: "And when the dew was gone up, behold upon the face of the desert a small round thing." And the appearance of this dew is white, like unto the colour of the crystal stone, whose appearance hath all colours in itself. This is that which is written, Num. xi. 7: "And its varieties as the varieties of crystal." Chuo lole wes lole manna so kun choshöva*4 nin fozhego loleta baye.
Chuo lole diyo bonchotis gon lezhedi yan kolu suchedzö*5 köbetsa. Lole wes tsuti wes bonrozhotas, Exod. xvi. 14: "Cheo teo bas zis vu diyo, vichis vudin bö yan kochojigo lati sejö ti."
Chuo zoswe yan lole diyo wes kache, zuroo che yan bökocho*6 kocho, tsuso zoswe yaus wepö che nin nipu*7. Lole wes tsuti wes bonrozhotas, Num. xi. 7: "Chuo le közhoye zuron közhoye yan bökocho."
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Post by polar principle on Jun 3, 2018 17:12:16 GMT -5
1* from that skull solidifies 2* the dead 3* English passive voice carries connotation that it is "made full" but Lezhi passive voice does not so I had to make add a few 'bo's in this paragraph. 4* "the just" 5* apple - apparently this word does not exist?? 6* crystal - or 'dikocho' 7* oneself = itself?
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