Bizz
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Posts: 7,302
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Post by Bizz on Jan 16, 2019 15:41:03 GMT -5
Welp, I'm now officially stopping the Kisska project in an incomplete state.
Today, I officially decided to end Kisska and most other conlang endeavors. As fun as it is, I realized that the process of finishing Kisska has gotten in the way of other projects and unfortunately has been significantly more frustrating to finish than some other projects which have a much less tower to climb in terms of aptitude and their eventual results. I remember many years ago, my young said "Do not make a conlang unless you're ready to commit to all the work it takes and only do something unique." At some point I simply ignored his advice and went into it one after another until the unique aspect died out. Now I wish I listened a bit sooner.
I began to have this realization to cut off Kisska when I realized I was already envisioning a new so-called "efficient" designs trapping myself into this amazing "semantic organization system" which honestly doesn't really do much to improve anything. I realized that I would have kept going forever much like how some writer is never satisfied with their work. I had to end the potential cycle.
The language never was intentionally designed with others in mind as I just simply wanted to develop a language design that didn't take much work at all to learn and guess what certain words would be. Since I was going to be working on and off on the language, such a design would make it easy for me to jump back in. It also would have benefited any future languages as I can use the previous language as a checklist as to what it needed in order to express things either by copying the semantics or slight modification.
But now, after all those years, that goal has been lost and perverted and I've essentially lost all my drive for this stuff and I realized I shouldn't be doing this when there's many other things in life that are so much better and bring way more satisfaction than this stuff. It feels bad to detach after 5 years of work but it must be done. At this rate, I'd rather just learn an actual language for real this time as opposed to floundering around it.
Just like Smash Bros, I think I'll just every now and then look at some conlang stuff passively from the sidelines possibly never to return again.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 16, 2019 22:17:03 GMT -5
Hm, ok. I think you should give yourself credit for how much work you've done, there's a lot of value in these languages. For one, words that are related in meaning are related in sound, to an extent that does not exist in any natural language. For two, it's very visceral in a way that the fabric of the language itself, the alphabet, is encoded with these surprisingly expressive concepts, so that one can usually guess the meaning of the word through just knowing the alphabet. It's as though each word is a sentence of its own, an incantation of its own -- somewhat of a deconstruction of language itself. I've often heard the conspiracy for instance that English is a conlang created by the Phoenicians (don't ask me how), and if this is true it is quite a bad one, because you have words that are completely unrelated and sound almost the same, soul and sole for example, and that this was deliberately done to get us to associate certain concepts. I would consider these languages a brilliant re-wiring of primarily the English language, but also a re-wiring and deconstruction of all language, and I think that there is certainly future potential in them, even if you do not work on them anymore.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 16, 2019 22:23:07 GMT -5
Besides, perhaps it is more finished than you think it is. There isn't any criteria of "finished" other than translating every word in the universe, and that's impossible, so I think that just by you laying the groundwork, and enabling translation of external texts through extrapolation, I think we have something valuable. You can consider it a success.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 16, 2019 22:34:20 GMT -5
Oh, and I really do think this is the pinnacle of all polysynthetic/oligomorphemic languages. Much better than Toki Pona at least. I mean, if I met anyone thinking of making one, I would point them to your languages and ask if it was really unique.
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Bizz
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Posts: 7,302
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Post by Bizz on Jan 17, 2019 2:36:41 GMT -5
Aw, thanks dude for making me feel a bit better as I never would have never thought of it in that light. I guess I'm too much of a perfectionist or something.
And I guess I can agree to the unique thing in some ways. A lot of Kisska's design was based off of my dissatisfaction with common oligomorphemic or minimalist designs so it would make sense I would attempt to circumvent those and produce a more peculiar design. Regardless, I feel like someone probably came to a similar conclusion as me and it's just that I don't know about it yet. But I guess that sort of indicates that it is pretty unique isn't it. Because such a design is truly hard to find.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 17, 2019 18:47:47 GMT -5
Feel free to make an official looking website or blog (wordpress is easy) for the languages sometime, if you want to increase the audience.
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Bizz
Member
Posts: 7,302
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Post by Bizz on Jan 26, 2019 19:28:37 GMT -5
After a mental break and some rethinking, I have decided to bring back up the Kisska project.
The main difference in my attitude is that I feel instead of focusing on the completion aspect, I should instead focus on the journey and be a bit more wandering or playful in my approach. I shouldn't except to find an end and instead just do what was the most enjoyable aspect, finding clever ways to re-express concepts and nuances found in normal languages while also somehow keeping it transparent and explanatory to a considerable degree. I feel I couldn't simply abandon some of the beautiful gems that were crafted in such a system and it would be a shame to disallow other gems to come into being.
I still think there's theoretically a better way or a system to do things but as of now, I simply can't figure it out. So, I won't care too much about it. I feel by the time I would have hit that system, it would probably be too late by then and I would be pretty fine anyway. If it turns out I somehow have enough time in the future, then who knows, maybe I'll actually make it. Otherwise, I have confirmed doubly that I will be sticking with Kisska.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 28, 2019 2:19:11 GMT -5
Vulva = outside + vagina = Ausfau?
Tribe = Nausit or Nausansit
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Post by polar principle on Jan 28, 2019 2:45:39 GMT -5
The main difference in my attitude is that I feel instead of focusing on the completion aspect, I should instead focus on the journey and be a bit more wandering or playful in my approach. I shouldn't except to find an end and instead just do what was the most enjoyable aspect, finding clever ways to re-express concepts and nuances found in normal languages while also somehow keeping it transparent and explanatory to a considerable degree. I feel I couldn't simply abandon some of the beautiful gems that were crafted in such a system and it would be a shame to disallow other gems to come into being. I still think there's theoretically a better way or a system to do things but as of now, I simply can't figure it out. So, I won't care too much about it. I feel by the time I would have hit that system, it would probably be too late by then and I would be pretty fine anyway. If it turns out I somehow have enough time in the future, then who knows, maybe I'll actually make it. Otherwise, I have confirmed doubly that I will be sticking with Kisska. Yes, and it's possible you will be more satisfied as well. I think that progress in conlangs mostly exists in the realm of the post-human. Global capitalism has homogenized all human language into a soup of synonyms and loanwords and miscellany, bringing it to an apotheosis, and perhaps this is the apotheosis of all human language as well, the tower of babel if you will. I believe that true progress lies in imagining how an alien would use language, perhaps this is embodied in the term "species neutral", and this is a great challenge. It is quite funny though, how you say the goal of the language is to be easy to learn, but I think that you have ulterior motives besides this, which perhaps are difficult to articulate.
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Bizz
Member
Posts: 7,302
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Post by Bizz on Jan 28, 2019 2:59:46 GMT -5
Pitumgep = cool Yokgep = Pretty nice use of line here. Ausfau = cool Nausit/Nausansit = I guess it'll do for now. I do have a word idea that would fix things though but I'm holding it back for now.
I actually already did some of these but synonyms are welcome. I'll update things after I add two more base words and do a modification on one of the existing ones.
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Bizz
Member
Posts: 7,302
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Post by Bizz on Jan 28, 2019 3:27:42 GMT -5
The main difference in my attitude is that I feel instead of focusing on the completion aspect, I should instead focus on the journey and be a bit more wandering or playful in my approach. I shouldn't except to find an end and instead just do what was the most enjoyable aspect, finding clever ways to re-express concepts and nuances found in normal languages while also somehow keeping it transparent and explanatory to a considerable degree. I feel I couldn't simply abandon some of the beautiful gems that were crafted in such a system and it would be a shame to disallow other gems to come into being. I still think there's theoretically a better way or a system to do things but as of now, I simply can't figure it out. So, I won't care too much about it. I feel by the time I would have hit that system, it would probably be too late by then and I would be pretty fine anyway. If it turns out I somehow have enough time in the future, then who knows, maybe I'll actually make it. Otherwise, I have confirmed doubly that I will be sticking with Kisska. Yes, and it's possible you will be more satisfied as well. I think that progress in conlangs mostly exists in the realm of the post-human. Global capitalism has homogenized all human language into a soup of synonyms and loanwords and miscellany, bringing it to an apotheosis, and perhaps this is the apotheosis of all human language as well, the tower of babel if you will. I believe that true progress lies in imagining how an alien would use language, perhaps this is embodied in the term "species neutral", and this is a great challenge. It is quite funny though, how you say the goal of the language is to be easy to learn, but I think that you have ulterior motives besides this, which perhaps are difficult to articulate.
I should explain that I've dropped the species neutral thing quite some months ago as I found that I deluded myself in thinking that I truly doing what was impossible. More accurately, Kisska is partially sterilized and obviously human-biased given the excessive usage of "san" (person).
Now, you probably realize this, but I can be pretty scatterbrained at times which is most likely a decent contribution to some of the mess and confusion I may incur in my intentions. Regardless, you're pretty good at recognizing ulterior content.
Anyways, "easy to learn" is pretty subjective and it's not the biggest goal really. Kisska is a more of a project created from my dissatisfaction with how word making worked in Lezhi. I was dissatisfied with the fact that I needed to keep adding more and more deviation meanings within the base words because a clearer option would have been unrealistically long. I guess I have this obsession with clarity and categorization. I also feel my synesthesia played a part in this as visually Kisska is clearer and less blurry than Lezhi. This is probably due to the perception of things becoming more precise per word or "category".
Also I'm tired right now so uh, yeah, I didn't get my point across correctly again. Maybe I'll give a better answer at a later time.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 28, 2019 3:29:40 GMT -5
to load = weight + put = maitposa upload = tamaitposa download = fenmaitposa now = dintem, current/present = dintemya update = dintemkosa renew = renoikosa
feel free to say your version as well.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 28, 2019 3:46:42 GMT -5
Oh yes, I see, it is like a higher resolution.
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Post by polar principle on Jan 28, 2019 4:15:14 GMT -5
It's as if you're tossing everything in the world into a matrix of baskets.
Like in Homestuck alchemy, item categorization -- it has to be mechanical in a way, as if the objects are passing through a sieve, as if you could input an arbitrary object and receive a resulting categorization based on its qualities. And backwards, you could choose some arbitrary morphemes, order them any which way, and stick them next to each other and receive a resulting object. A good idea for a storyline to something, I suppose.
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Post by polar principle on Feb 3, 2019 14:25:02 GMT -5
Before Sleep The lateral vibrations caress me, They leap and caress me, They work pathetically in my favour, They seek my financial good.
Bata Slaf Fesgatya wifciki luptusas mi, Isu coigas na luptusas mi, Isu pagas le’fumitya in mi wotatun, Isu biswisa mi monya guku.
She of the spear stands present. The gods of the underworld attend me, O Annubis, These are they of thy company. With a pathetic solicitude they attend me; Undulant, Their realm is the lateral courses.
Nimu di honwig futsapas gesiaya. Dauni di udasegat kicganas mi, O Annubis, Dini sea isu di du kiclit. Kic le’fumitya binkin isa kicganas mi; Tanwifya, Isu sakgat sea fesgatya tunwaini.
Light! I am up to follow thee, Pallas. Up and out of their caresses. You were gone up as a rocket, Bending your passages from right to left and from left to right In the flat projection of a spiral. The gods of drugged sleep attend me, Wishing me well; I am up to follow thee, Pallas.
Lus! Mi sea fu ta nofganas du, Pallas. Fu na aus di isa luptusi. Du fuganet sua austaisfluk, Bicas du penganasuti fen ra ta we na fen we ta ra Nin gehorya loictan di koiyok. Dauni di dogya slaf kicganas mi, Sakwisas mi guya; Mi sea kiya ta nofganas du, Pallas.
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